"If abortion was illegal, what should be done with the women who have illegal abortions?"
This question was asked by Daniel Florien over at Unreasonable Faith, one of my new favorite blogs. Daniel asked this question to protesters attending an anti-abortion rally. The answers (perhaps "responses" is a more appropriate word) are highly amusing. I recommend visiting the site to view the video.
First, let me begin by quoting the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.The 14th Amendment extends the rights of the Constitution to all persons born or naturalized in the United States. Therefore, I see no reason why abortion should be made illegal. However, if it were made illegal, what is the appropriate punishment? Do they receive life in prison? Do we commit the irony of taking the woman's life?
Fore the record, I am pro-life. I mean, come on, who isn't? I am anti-abortion, but I favor its legalization. You can be both pro-life and pro-choice. These are two separate arguments. The real argument on abortion is pro-choice or anti-choice.
If abortion was illegal, it would be because the government once again chose to legislate the morality of its citizenry - because the government once again chose to limit the freedom of its citizenry - because the government once again chose to make criminals out of otherwise law-abiding citizens. A woman should not be made a criminal for acknowledging that she would not make a good mother or could not provide a safe environment for her child.
I found this site via blogengage.
Wow. Just wow. This statement blew me away:
"I am anti-abortion, but I favor its legalization. You can be both pro-life and pro-choice. These are two separate arguments. The real argument on abortion is pro-choice or anti-choice."
This nails it right on the head. Fundamentalist Pro-Choice people need to be tackled using this argument.
Excellent post Christopher
I meant to type "fundamentalist pro-life people need to be tackled using this argument".
Apologies
If abortion were illegal, women would still find ways to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, as they did before Roe v. Wade (back-alley butchers, coat hangers, jumper cables; but even as far back as pioneer times, or earlier -- combinations of herbs and/or medicines/drugs... if the history were recorded, it would be fascinating).
Also, if abortion were illegal, maternal mortality would increase drastically. Ectopic pregnancies would be a death sentence. Pre-empclansia and other complications would kill the woman and the fetus.
And what about miscarriages? Would we investigate those as homicides? How can we know the miscarriage was due to natural causes and not the woman's actions?
We should focus on reducing the need for abortions, by increasing education about and access to birth control, and providing our youth with medically-accurate, comprehensive sex ed, so they understand what their bodies are doing and how to control them. But the option to terminate a pregnancy, for personal or medical reasons, should always be legal, safe, and affordable.
"The 14th Amendment extends the rights of the Constitution to all persons born or naturalized in the United States."
This is confusing the citizenship part of the 14th amendment with the part that extends the protections of the constitution to those in the states.
Foreigners, illegal aliens are under the protections of the constitution just like citizens.
The US constitution forbids putting anyone out of the protection of the law. Article I, sections 9&10. State constitutions have similar prohibitions.
Laws that put Jews, Slavs, Gypsies, Blacks (Nazi laws) or human beings who are alive but not born out of the protection of the law are unconstitutional both under the federal and state constitutions.
Anyone who acts under the supposed authority of an unconstitutional statute which, though having the form of law is not law, does so at his/her own peril (they can be prosecuted and if found guilty punished).
"All persons are presumed to know the law. If any person acts under any unconstitutional statute, he does so at his own peril. He must take the consequences." 16 AM JUR 177,178 (American Jurisprudence, legal encyclopedia found in any law library)
macearl1@justice.com
Criss, some people violate practically all the laws. Should laws be repealed if some people disobey them? If a few people disobey them? If thousands? Millions?
Millions of people disobey the speed limit laws. Virtually every driver has done so. Millions disobey the speed laws habitually.
Should speed limits be abolished because "everyone" disobeys them one time or another?
Just about everyone has taken something that doesn't belong to him/her without the permission of the owner at one time or another. Should laws against theft be abolished?
macearl1@justice.com
Macearl1:
Thanks for completely missing the point.
If abortion were illegal, women would STILL find a way to teeminate an unwanted pregnancy, MEANING: they would resort to coat hangers, jumper cables, and back-alley butchers. MEANING: they would DIE from these practices (as they did pre-Roe v.Wade). THEREFORE: Do you want more dead women? If your goal is "pro-life" and you want to "protect life," why are you advocating for legislation that will surely END the (undisputable, unequivocal) LIFE of a woman?
Anti-abortion legislation creates death. "Pro-death," in case you are confused, is the opposite of "pro-life."
Criss, apparently you do not believe that human beings who are alive but have not been born are human beings. Or that they are human beings but are not equal to other human beings. That those who are alive but not born may be put out of the protection of the law.
Yes, SOME mothers would still murder their babies at considerable risk to their own lives. Does that the perpetrator of a crime risks his/her own life by committing the crime justify legalizing the crime? It is very common for armed robbers to be killed by their victims, bystanders, or police. Should armed robbery be legalized?
Millions of innocent children are to be put to death because they are inconvenient to someone because some mothers die as a side effect of murdering their children. This reasoning is morally sick.
Many criminals are motivated by desperation into committing their crimes. Should that justify decriminalizing their crimes?
Many mothers would not seek to murder their children if it was treated like any other murder. Simply because quasi-legalized abortion is available, the deaths from "safe, legal" abortion are multiplied.
It is unreasonable to "protect" the lives of murderesses by legalizing the murders they commit.
The ectopic pregnancy straw man argument does not stand up to reason. The purpose of removing the unborn child and any other accessory organs (placenta, bag of waters, umbilicus) is not to kill the unborn child, though it is at present an almost inevitable result. One ectopic child has been saved that I have heard of.
macearl@justice.com
According to a number of websites many children have survived ectopic pregnancies. Some mistakenly think that "ectopic" means "tubal" only. "Ectopic" means "outside the uterus." No tubal pregnancy child is known to have survived. Many children have survived pregnancies in which implantation was to an ovary, to the intestine, to the peritoneal sac, to the outside of the uterus, to the bladder, and to other parts within the peritoneum. They are saved by Caesarean section.
macearl1@justice.com